Post by Mil on Oct 30, 2011 11:40:40 GMT -5
Transferred from the TRRQ Discussion Board formerly on FB:
Carol Weekes
How long do you usually try a medicine when trying to eliminate or diminish myco noises and symptoms (such as the perculator gurgling)? Do you give it a full week or longer before considering changing meds if the noise doesn't stop? Or is it normal for the noises to pop up on occasion over the usual one month to six week medicine regimen?
I saw vast improvement with my girl rat's noise over the past week; it went down to virtually nothing. Then last night, the gurgling popped up again; noisy episodes that only happen on occasion for half a minute, but makes me wonder if the baytril/amoxin/doxy isn't doing enough of a job? Is it time to switch meds?
Anyone's experience/thoughts on this? Much thanks.
about 11 months ago
-----------
Karyss Crowfeathers Vickerstaff
I do,
Unfortuantly most didnt end well.. Myco is a tough thing to get rid.
Id say two weeks is best.
I would ask for stronger meds ronaxan (I think it called that) Worked wonders on my girls...
The reoccuring noises could also be scarring on the lungs, my girls have been left with scarring. The vets will know more accurately :-)
Hope thats helpful :-)
about 11 months ago
----------
Samantha Margeson
I dont know much about the medical side of it but I just lost my runt rat yesterday morning to pneumoia. He lived for 2 years and 3 months. I still have his blood brother and he is doing well. A great website I know of is www.ratfanclub.org I have met the lady who runs it. I trust her more than my vet! If you have any medical or any other questions email her. It is a great website and is full with good info. She is super nice and knows a lot about rats.
about 11 months ago · · Report · Delete Post.Kara Carter
I lost my most recent boy last month after a long battle with respiratory complications.
I can tell you that if you're serious about keeping rats and treating them, which it sounds like you are, then investing in a nebulizer is one of the most effective things you can do.
If baytril isn't enough, and it usually isn't, then the baytril/doxy combo is used. Please do not give this with dairy, as it neutralizes the doxy If you don't see a response in 3 or so days, then it's time to reconsider treatment. Their little metabolisms are so fast, if they are going to react to something they will in a shorter amount of time then, say, us people.
There are other combinations of antibiotics that can be used. www.ratguide.com does an excellent job of spelling these out in a way your vet will appreciate.
There are also antibiotics that can be injected, which might provide a good starting point of attack on a nasty lung infection.
But back to the nebulizer- nothing has been so effective for me. I am confident that I cleared up the infection in my boy, but the lung scarring had already occurred so it was a losing battle. That is why time is of the essence here. The lungs scar easily, which leads to heart problems due to the need to pump more blood to get the same amount of oxygen that healthy rat lungs produce. Nebulization delivers medication straight to the problem area. Baytril can be nebulized, also gentocin and even medication that helps open up the lungs. If you want any other documentation on this, just message me and let me know. I can point you to some good sites
I'm not a doctor, BTW. Just a proactive rat owner!
about 11 months ago
---------
Kara Carter
Oh, and I didn't mean to talk down to you. I see you're pretty proactive yourself, lol.
I treated my last guy with albuterol [by nebulizer]. I've heard good stories about that opening up the airways for kids with lung damage. Unfortunately didn't work out too well for me as a solo treatment- I think we were dealing with some heart problems and/or extreme lung damage by that point.
Personally, I'm never content with hearing any noises. Not to beat a dead horse, but you might want to give that nebulizer some thought for her.
about 11 months ago · · Report · Delete Post.Carol Weekes
Hi everyone,
Thanks for your responses. I do have a nebulizer and have been using a straight saline mist; we also have a cool mist humidifier in the room (with ultra violet light to kill germs and HEPA filter) to keep the air cool and silky.
She's been an occasional sneezy rat in the past who would have some heavier sneezing from time to time. She's about 21 months old, 500 grams, no poryphin, good appette and energy, good fur, etc. This gurgling began as a very rare occurence that would last a few seconds, during the summer. I thought the humidity might have played a part in that, and we do our best to keep them cool and comfortable. She has been on baytril, as well as baytril and doxy pretty regularly after any sneezing episodes, often for three or more weeks at a time. Then we tried adding amoxicillan in with the baytril/doxy routine and that knocked the sneezing out for a good while.
Then just this past early October, the occasional gurgling and these occasional coo-ing type noises (like a dove can make) began to happen more frequently; that kind of coffee-perculator sound. She's been to the vet three times in the past six weeks and will NOT make that sound at the vet's office; but starts again later in the evening once she's home. He asks me to try and mimic what she sounds like (that's fun...); the first time, he said her lungs sounded clear; to just wait and see if it started again. Just over a week later, I had her back again; this time he put her on Clavamox. It had no effect. The last time I had her there, just under two weeks ago, he said she could be allergic and to try her with Children's Benadryl twice a day. Again, although it didn't worsen, it didn't clear up either.
Finally, last night she had multiple gurgling sessions. The vet wasn't there today, but had his clinic mix me up a batch of Zithromax; she's just had the first dose this morning - she is on 0.25 ml once a day.
It's driving me nuts. Because she isn't mouth-breathing or heaving to breathe (thank goodness) I don't think they'd want me to jump to using albuterol or amniophylline at this point. They told me that the saline mist will help soothe any inflammed passages. He (the vet) does not hear anything in her lungs; he says her heart sounds fine. Her color is good. There is no labor to breathe. Just this gurgling that comes and goes.
It is incredibly frustrating trying to clear this up. I have used gentacin with a nebulizer in the past, but had assumed it was for more extreme cases where mouth-breathing and lower lung infection has occurred.
If this Zithromax (and I've heard you can use doxycycline with Zithro) doesn't improve this by the time the vet is back next Wednesday, I'll have to discuss what else to try.
But it sounds like congestion/rattling in her nose and throat area, as if she's trying to clear mucus. I just don't want it getting worse and am trying to discover the right meds or combination of meds.
What about gufenisen syrup for breaking down mucus? Or Bisolvon?
Sorry for such a long post. It is always such a worry when this stuff starts. How I wish the vet community would patent a vaccine for blasted myco!
Much thanks for everyone's replies.
about 11 months ago
-----------
Carol Weekes
Also, my condolences to those who have recently lost their rat sweeties; it is a hard thing to go through; my heart goes out to each of you.
about 11 months ago · · Report · Delete Post.Kara Carter
They keep teasing about that myco vaccine, don't they?
I had a gentocin/acetylcistine nebulization mix at one point. Acetylcistine is marketed as MucoMist, if I recall. It's a mucus thinner like guffenisen/Mucinex. If you're nebulizing her anyway, it might be worth a shot. And if he adds Baytril back to the mix, you can nebulize the injectable form while you're at it [like you, I know Zithro and Doxy can go together, but I don't know about Baytril and Zithro]. I've heard of using a children's decongestant, but honestly I've never tried that. If she's not breathing with her sides, I definitely wouldn't start albuterol or anything.
I think your dove noises are what I call "monkey noises"... kind of like saying "you" without the "y". It was an earlier symptom. Your little girl doesn't hang her head off of her platforms and house a lot, does she?
Going on since October... you might discuss a low-dose, long-term antibiotic treatment with your vet. Rebounds are the worst
Finally, consider getting some Bene-bac or other good beneficial bacteria supplement gel if you haven't already. It's a great hit!
about 11 months ago
--------------
Carol Weekes
Hi Kara:
Much thanks for your reply. No, she doesn't hang her head down. She can be pretty playful for an almost two year old rat. I did have her on baytril once a day (0.1 ml of injectable baytril) for the last five or six months. It made me wonder why this gurgling stuff starts if she's been on this as a maintenance dose. Maybe this is some kind of rebound; I don't know.
I do have a probiotic here called 'Florentero' that I picked up a few weeks ago; she has gotten that once a day (1/2 cc the vet said); when she wasn't on doxy, she got probiotic yogurt regularly.
I've not heard anything concrete on a myco vaccine; the industry will do it for farm animals because there's big bucks involved there; but not for our sweet, unconventional pet rats. Maddening, but what can you do?
Thanks for your info.
about 11 months ago
------------------
Carol Weekes
How long do you usually try a medicine when trying to eliminate or diminish myco noises and symptoms (such as the perculator gurgling)? Do you give it a full week or longer before considering changing meds if the noise doesn't stop? Or is it normal for the noises to pop up on occasion over the usual one month to six week medicine regimen?
I saw vast improvement with my girl rat's noise over the past week; it went down to virtually nothing. Then last night, the gurgling popped up again; noisy episodes that only happen on occasion for half a minute, but makes me wonder if the baytril/amoxin/doxy isn't doing enough of a job? Is it time to switch meds?
Anyone's experience/thoughts on this? Much thanks.
about 11 months ago
-----------
Karyss Crowfeathers Vickerstaff
I do,
Unfortuantly most didnt end well.. Myco is a tough thing to get rid.
Id say two weeks is best.
I would ask for stronger meds ronaxan (I think it called that) Worked wonders on my girls...
The reoccuring noises could also be scarring on the lungs, my girls have been left with scarring. The vets will know more accurately :-)
Hope thats helpful :-)
about 11 months ago
----------
Samantha Margeson
I dont know much about the medical side of it but I just lost my runt rat yesterday morning to pneumoia. He lived for 2 years and 3 months. I still have his blood brother and he is doing well. A great website I know of is www.ratfanclub.org I have met the lady who runs it. I trust her more than my vet! If you have any medical or any other questions email her. It is a great website and is full with good info. She is super nice and knows a lot about rats.
about 11 months ago · · Report · Delete Post.Kara Carter
I lost my most recent boy last month after a long battle with respiratory complications.
I can tell you that if you're serious about keeping rats and treating them, which it sounds like you are, then investing in a nebulizer is one of the most effective things you can do.
If baytril isn't enough, and it usually isn't, then the baytril/doxy combo is used. Please do not give this with dairy, as it neutralizes the doxy If you don't see a response in 3 or so days, then it's time to reconsider treatment. Their little metabolisms are so fast, if they are going to react to something they will in a shorter amount of time then, say, us people.
There are other combinations of antibiotics that can be used. www.ratguide.com does an excellent job of spelling these out in a way your vet will appreciate.
There are also antibiotics that can be injected, which might provide a good starting point of attack on a nasty lung infection.
But back to the nebulizer- nothing has been so effective for me. I am confident that I cleared up the infection in my boy, but the lung scarring had already occurred so it was a losing battle. That is why time is of the essence here. The lungs scar easily, which leads to heart problems due to the need to pump more blood to get the same amount of oxygen that healthy rat lungs produce. Nebulization delivers medication straight to the problem area. Baytril can be nebulized, also gentocin and even medication that helps open up the lungs. If you want any other documentation on this, just message me and let me know. I can point you to some good sites
I'm not a doctor, BTW. Just a proactive rat owner!
about 11 months ago
---------
Kara Carter
Oh, and I didn't mean to talk down to you. I see you're pretty proactive yourself, lol.
I treated my last guy with albuterol [by nebulizer]. I've heard good stories about that opening up the airways for kids with lung damage. Unfortunately didn't work out too well for me as a solo treatment- I think we were dealing with some heart problems and/or extreme lung damage by that point.
Personally, I'm never content with hearing any noises. Not to beat a dead horse, but you might want to give that nebulizer some thought for her.
about 11 months ago · · Report · Delete Post.Carol Weekes
Hi everyone,
Thanks for your responses. I do have a nebulizer and have been using a straight saline mist; we also have a cool mist humidifier in the room (with ultra violet light to kill germs and HEPA filter) to keep the air cool and silky.
She's been an occasional sneezy rat in the past who would have some heavier sneezing from time to time. She's about 21 months old, 500 grams, no poryphin, good appette and energy, good fur, etc. This gurgling began as a very rare occurence that would last a few seconds, during the summer. I thought the humidity might have played a part in that, and we do our best to keep them cool and comfortable. She has been on baytril, as well as baytril and doxy pretty regularly after any sneezing episodes, often for three or more weeks at a time. Then we tried adding amoxicillan in with the baytril/doxy routine and that knocked the sneezing out for a good while.
Then just this past early October, the occasional gurgling and these occasional coo-ing type noises (like a dove can make) began to happen more frequently; that kind of coffee-perculator sound. She's been to the vet three times in the past six weeks and will NOT make that sound at the vet's office; but starts again later in the evening once she's home. He asks me to try and mimic what she sounds like (that's fun...); the first time, he said her lungs sounded clear; to just wait and see if it started again. Just over a week later, I had her back again; this time he put her on Clavamox. It had no effect. The last time I had her there, just under two weeks ago, he said she could be allergic and to try her with Children's Benadryl twice a day. Again, although it didn't worsen, it didn't clear up either.
Finally, last night she had multiple gurgling sessions. The vet wasn't there today, but had his clinic mix me up a batch of Zithromax; she's just had the first dose this morning - she is on 0.25 ml once a day.
It's driving me nuts. Because she isn't mouth-breathing or heaving to breathe (thank goodness) I don't think they'd want me to jump to using albuterol or amniophylline at this point. They told me that the saline mist will help soothe any inflammed passages. He (the vet) does not hear anything in her lungs; he says her heart sounds fine. Her color is good. There is no labor to breathe. Just this gurgling that comes and goes.
It is incredibly frustrating trying to clear this up. I have used gentacin with a nebulizer in the past, but had assumed it was for more extreme cases where mouth-breathing and lower lung infection has occurred.
If this Zithromax (and I've heard you can use doxycycline with Zithro) doesn't improve this by the time the vet is back next Wednesday, I'll have to discuss what else to try.
But it sounds like congestion/rattling in her nose and throat area, as if she's trying to clear mucus. I just don't want it getting worse and am trying to discover the right meds or combination of meds.
What about gufenisen syrup for breaking down mucus? Or Bisolvon?
Sorry for such a long post. It is always such a worry when this stuff starts. How I wish the vet community would patent a vaccine for blasted myco!
Much thanks for everyone's replies.
about 11 months ago
-----------
Carol Weekes
Also, my condolences to those who have recently lost their rat sweeties; it is a hard thing to go through; my heart goes out to each of you.
about 11 months ago · · Report · Delete Post.Kara Carter
They keep teasing about that myco vaccine, don't they?
I had a gentocin/acetylcistine nebulization mix at one point. Acetylcistine is marketed as MucoMist, if I recall. It's a mucus thinner like guffenisen/Mucinex. If you're nebulizing her anyway, it might be worth a shot. And if he adds Baytril back to the mix, you can nebulize the injectable form while you're at it [like you, I know Zithro and Doxy can go together, but I don't know about Baytril and Zithro]. I've heard of using a children's decongestant, but honestly I've never tried that. If she's not breathing with her sides, I definitely wouldn't start albuterol or anything.
I think your dove noises are what I call "monkey noises"... kind of like saying "you" without the "y". It was an earlier symptom. Your little girl doesn't hang her head off of her platforms and house a lot, does she?
Going on since October... you might discuss a low-dose, long-term antibiotic treatment with your vet. Rebounds are the worst
Finally, consider getting some Bene-bac or other good beneficial bacteria supplement gel if you haven't already. It's a great hit!
about 11 months ago
--------------
Carol Weekes
Hi Kara:
Much thanks for your reply. No, she doesn't hang her head down. She can be pretty playful for an almost two year old rat. I did have her on baytril once a day (0.1 ml of injectable baytril) for the last five or six months. It made me wonder why this gurgling stuff starts if she's been on this as a maintenance dose. Maybe this is some kind of rebound; I don't know.
I do have a probiotic here called 'Florentero' that I picked up a few weeks ago; she has gotten that once a day (1/2 cc the vet said); when she wasn't on doxy, she got probiotic yogurt regularly.
I've not heard anything concrete on a myco vaccine; the industry will do it for farm animals because there's big bucks involved there; but not for our sweet, unconventional pet rats. Maddening, but what can you do?
Thanks for your info.
about 11 months ago
------------------